Wow you should really come visit Texas! Don't believe everything you see on TV. they'll make you believe Southerners are a bunch of careless-gun-toting, chew-spitting, beer-drinking, Bambi-killers.

Mmmmm venison.... Nothing wrong with bambi-killers, as long as it is done humanely 

Quote from: zubbuz on August 11, 2012, 01:28:23 PM

Quote from: racheltexas on August 11, 2012, 01:07:39 PM

Wow you should really come visit Texas! Don't believe everything you see on TV. they'll make you believe Southerners are a bunch of careless-gun-toting, chew-spitting, beer-drinking, Bambi-killers.

Mmmmm venison.... Nothing wrong with bambi-killers, as long as it is done humanely 

THANK YOU...finally! I love venison! That's why I used the term "bambi-killers" - that's how most people see it - instead of just deer hunting.

It can be humanely done- and it's the best meat in the world.....well next to beef.

Oh let's be real. BACON is Gods food. Next to that would be Deer Jerky. Everything else in in 3rd place. 

But, if you ever try hurt them or someone they love....we'll that's where the "draw" comes out.

My next-door neighbour as a teen, Michael Harding, married an American wife and went to Boston. They separated and got into a custody battle; her father, Paul Armato, felt that Michael had "hurt them or someone they love" and sorted it by shooting Michael dead. I know nothing of the wife or her father, but the world is now absent a fine, honourable person.
A gun turns a crisis into a tragedy.
In any dispute, one or more of the participants is mistaken, or misjudged something. Is it better if the crisis is solved by analysis, or possession of weaponry? I'm not making this up by the way, google the names. And yes, I know Boston isn't in Texas 

I used to have a habit of going jogging in the evening; twice I was mistaken for a fleeing villain. It was a harrowing enough experience as it was, but if I had lived in a country where people possessed firearms it would have been far worse.

Quote from: zubbuz on August 11, 2012, 02:08:27 AM

People are polite when everyone is an Enforcer

I was going to be 'cute' and point out that it would be fake politeness born out of fear rather than love; but that's a bit unfair - OK this is a bit subtle but - I understand that if you enforce politeness then genuine politeness will grow from it: this is why we make our children apologise for agression when clearly they don't mean to be sorry. However, I wouldn't want to live in a world where I couldn't trust people's motivation.

Yeah that was my point really - I have never really agreed with US gun laws - but that is another matter that probably really shouldn't be gone into on this forum

I was going to go through this entire thread, but decided it would be better to repeat myself anyways for the new folks . . . I'm from Massachusetts.

What countries do you both live in?

I came from Britain, emigrated to Canada - and yes, guns were a primary reason for choosing Canada over America (not that we're immune from it here, either). Remember, my mother's neighbour had lost a son to America, she'd have been devastated if I'd made the same choice.

The pencil vs. gun quip is very cute, and I'm sure it's lapped up at the NRA, but here's why it's misguided: the pencil is simply a tool of the bad speller, the crime is very much in the head of the person using it. The pencil does not facilitate the error - it prefers neither good, nor bad spelling, but simply manifests the extant error on paper. The gun however, prefers shooting over not shooting; it makes it far too easy for the user to point and shoot, and once triggered, it takes over and fulfils its role. Your quip actually illustrates why guns are so much worse than knives; kinves can kill people too, but at least they require the full engagement of the executioner, which in some way guaratnees the necessity of the act. If you compared a pencil to a knife, I might agree with you.

P.S. I'm sorry for my part in turning this into a gun thread, but it is a relevant part of where I live, which was the main topic 

Thanks you all for a very stimulating conversation. This is a issue that is very near and dear to my heart - and sounds like it is with you too - just for different reasons.

In America we have a RIGHT to bear arms (the 2nd amendment). And when our rights start to be torn down, we are in a downward spiral ending in a communist- like country. The thought that that may be sooner around the corner than you might think makes me sick. George Washington would be rolling in his grave.

When you start to erase such rights, you open the door wide open for government to close down such rights as, religion and free speech. You can already see that happening.

Like you said, I don't want to turn this into a gun law debate, but you might like to read this article if you have the chance.

http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/articles/2010/canada-the-lessons-of-lost-liberty.aspx (This article doesn't bring out some other main points. It isn't just about the money it's costing. Keep in mind too, that there are aprox. 34,482,779 peeps in Canada and 311,591,917 in the U.S.))

Crime might seem to be lower in Canada. But, when you start keeping guns from law abiding citizens, there are that many less people to protect from the not-so-law-abiding. The 'bad guys' will ALWAYS find a way to get guns, no matter how many laws are in place. Then the 'good guys' are like sitting ducks. They no longer have the right to protect themselves, and get punished for it.

I agree with doodle in the face that it is intent - what is in your heart. There are so many tools to commit a crime. Whether it's easy or hard is NOT the issue. Crime still lives on - it's in our sinful nature to do so. Remember Cain and Abel in the bible?

There are many things in someones life that they shape their opinion on due to a personal experience - I hope that one day that everyone would be open to finding the truth on subjects such as these.

Thank you again for this back-and-forth! It makes be firmer in what I believe, and more grateful to be an american. At the same time, it makes me sad to know that we are on a fast track to being right-free like many other countries.

Thank you again for this back-and-forth! It makes be firmer in what I believe, and more grateful to be an american.

It's funny that - discussions like this on gun laws just firm up my views on the matter as well

A lot of it comes down to the country you were raised in and experiences that you have had - eg Andy and myself, both raised in countries with strict gun laws and while I have never had any related bad experiences, Andy obviously has. And also the views of those directly around you growing up have a huge impact on your views.

In America we have a RIGHT to bear arms (the 2nd amendment). And when our rights start to be torn down, we are in a downward spiral ending in a communist country. The thought that that may be sooner around the corner than you might think makes me sick. George Washington would be rolling in his grave.

I find this to be a little inflammatory and sensationalising as even the Democrats in the US are more right wing than a lot of other country's centre-right parties (eg New Zealand). And true communism is something that is impossibly far off, and this line is portraying an extremely exaggerated view of what communism is. But I suppose it is by-the-by, gun laws might be on the edge of what should be debated, straight out politics probably shouldn't be touched with a barge pole!

I am impressed with the fact that this has also been an extremely calm and meaningful debate.  I have been in some forums (hear this Jeep Patriot Forums?) that just nitpick and stab at others words like bad mouthing the other guy would ever win points.
It makes it actually enjoyable to discuss the occasional serious issues intelligently (though I am required to fake the intelligence part). 

I usually try to shut my trap if I start getting too aggravated by a subject because I want to avoid the possibility of saying something I will regret later - especially on these sorts of forums where I like everyone here, but don't know you all very well... Amongst my good friends on the otherhand, I am known to be fairly argumentative