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Author Topic: Off camera second curtain flash question  (Read 2537 times)

Offline Ochotona

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Off camera second curtain flash question
« on: January 15, 2015, 05:13:42 PM »
I'm having fun with my new yongnuo yn-560 III and yn-560 TX, but I was dissapointed to learn that non-canon brand flashes can not be set to second curtain flash mode.  When my yongnuo is attached to the hotshoe the custom functions flash setting for off camera second curtain is not available.  I guess canon's way of "encouraging" you to buy their flashes, but irritating to me.  Anybody know of a workaround or hack?  Best I can find is use the on-camera flash or a cheap canon flash in the hotshoe as a master and set the off-camera flash to optical slave mode but that's not a great solution if you don't want to front light the subject w/ on-camera flas or buy a new flash.

Offline Snapper

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Re: Off camera second curtain flash question
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2015, 07:25:04 AM »
To the best of my knowledge, rear curtain sync is only available via the Canon series of flashes. The more expensive triggers - PocketWizard and Phottix, for example - do offer a work-around with other makes of flash such as the Yongnuo MkIII.

The rear-curtain can be set on the Canon flashes but doesn't work off-camera.

A major mistake by Canon IMHO as it is certainly available for Nikon cameras and Canon made a decision to disable the function.
I used to be a very negative person... but then I went digital.

Offline Ochotona

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Re: Off camera second curtain flash question
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2015, 10:50:39 AM »
Thanks Snapper.  That's the same conclusion I reached, although I didn't know the high end triggers would make a non-canon flash work in second curtain mode - thank you.  I think rather than dropping some cash on the fancy triggers I'd probably just buy the cheapest little canon speedlight I could find and use it to trigger slaves optically.  I played around last night using the on-camera flash to trigger the yongnuo in slave mode and it was surprising how little light is required to trigger it, to the point that the foreground stays nearly dark.

Offline Craig

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Re: Off camera second curtain flash question
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2015, 01:03:07 PM »
I believe your flash is manual only and has only 1 pin. It cannot communicate with your trigger other than fire.
Cheaper triggers work fine with non canon flashes and have full control of all the flash settings. Yn 622c's work great for all flashes that have more than manual functions. I think your flash may be the problem. Try not to buy an optical system to fire your flash. They definitely have limitations.
6D, T2i, Canon 600EX, 430EXII, and some other stuff my wife doesn't know about.

Offline Ochotona

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Re: Off camera second curtain flash question
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2015, 01:06:43 PM »
I believe your flash is manual only and has only 1 pin. It cannot communicate with your trigger other than fire.
Cheaper triggers work fine with non canon flashes and have full control of all the flash settings. Yn 622c's work great for all flashes that have more than manual functions. I think your flash may be the problem. Try not to buy an optical system to fire your flash. They definitely have limitations.

Hmm, I've got the yn-560-tx which is supposedly a more advanced trigger than the 622c and still no go.  Have you fired second curtain with 622c's?

Offline Craig

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Re: Off camera second curtain flash question
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2015, 03:18:26 PM »
I believe your flash is manual only and has only 1 pin. It cannot communicate with your trigger other than fire.
Cheaper triggers work fine with non canon flashes and have full control of all the flash settings. Yn 622c's work great for all flashes that have more than manual functions. I think your flash may be the problem. Try not to buy an optical system to fire your flash. They definitely have limitations.

Hmm, I've got the yn-560-tx which is supposedly a more advanced trigger than the 622c and still no go.  Have you fired second curtain with 622c's?

I just did it to confirm. I don't feel it is a trigger issue. I think it is because you have a manual only flash. Also make sure in your external flash settings on the camera you disable "wireless mode" If not second curtain will be greyed out.
6D, T2i, Canon 600EX, 430EXII, and some other stuff my wife doesn't know about.

Offline Craig

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Re: Off camera second curtain flash question
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2015, 04:19:43 PM »
The rear-curtain can be set on the Canon flashes but doesn't work off-camera.
Yn 622c trigger plus canon flash rear-curtain does work off camera
6D, T2i, Canon 600EX, 430EXII, and some other stuff my wife doesn't know about.

Offline Ochotona

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Re: Off camera second curtain flash question
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2015, 04:31:50 PM »

I just did it to confirm. I don't feel it is a trigger issue. I think it is because you have a manual only flash. Also make sure in your external flash settings on the camera you disable "wireless mode" If not second curtain will be greyed out.


I see an ugly message similar to this on the external flash settings, but it says Error: Menu can not be displayed.  External flash not attached or powered off.



 :(

I appreciate you taking the time to confirm, but I suspect the fact that you don't see the error message is because you use canon brand flashes, not the fact that you're using the 622c triggers.

I'm still curious if anybody here is using a non-canon brand flash and getting second shutter sync with 622c or other triggers.


Offline Craig

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Re: Off camera second curtain flash question
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2015, 04:40:50 PM »
Over on the POTN forum there is a very large thread regarding the 622c's.  2nd curtain does work with non canon flashes.
Check out around post #337. CliveBoy wrote a manual on these units called TOYUG  "the other yongnuo user guide"

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?p=17220292

 
« Last Edit: January 16, 2015, 04:45:55 PM by Craig »
6D, T2i, Canon 600EX, 430EXII, and some other stuff my wife doesn't know about.

Offline Craig

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Re: Off camera second curtain flash question
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2015, 04:42:32 PM »
Ochotona, does your flash have a single pin on the part that goes into the hot shoe?

Here is a quote from CliveyBoy from the POTN forum. He is an expert on the 622's

"Canon provides 2CS only from the camera hotshoe; they disable the firing groups menu when Wireless Mode = Disabled. However, the YN622C communicates wirelessly whether that setting (for optical pulse code) is on or off, so is able to take the "on-camera flash" instructions and transmit them by radio. As the 622C is designed to use the camera's menus for control it cannot by itself implement groups when the menu item is disabled. The 622C-TX has its own groups settings, so is not limited in that way."

« Last Edit: January 16, 2015, 04:49:30 PM by Craig »
6D, T2i, Canon 600EX, 430EXII, and some other stuff my wife doesn't know about.

Offline Ochotona

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Re: Off camera second curtain flash question
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2015, 06:45:58 PM »
Ochotona, does your flash have a single pin on the part that goes into the hot shoe?

Here is a quote from CliveyBoy from the POTN forum. He is an expert on the 622's

"Canon provides 2CS only from the camera hotshoe; they disable the firing groups menu when Wireless Mode = Disabled. However, the YN622C communicates wirelessly whether that setting (for optical pulse code) is on or off, so is able to take the "on-camera flash" instructions and transmit them by radio. As the 622C is designed to use the camera's menus for control it cannot by itself implement groups when the menu item is disabled. The 622C-TX has its own groups settings, so is not limited in that way."

Thanks for your continued help (instead of just saying "well if he doesn't want to listen to me the heck with him"   :P)!  I'm heading over to read the thread on POTN.  My flash does have only 1 pin but my YN560TX controller has 6 pins so I will read the thread and play with the controller and see if I can get it to work.  I now have more than I've had since I started googling this stuff!