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May 20, 2012, 03:26:47 AM


Author Topic: Shooting white objects?  (Read 319 times)

Offline AndyWear

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Shooting white objects?
« on: February 16, 2012, 05:17:38 PM »
Hi guys,
So I was wondering how you go about in shooting white clothing without it getting overexposures?

I've been noticing that everytime I shoot something white outdoors, all the whites get really blown out.  I'm suppose to shoot my cousin's wedding soon and well..wedding dresses are white, so now I'm scared I will overexpose her wedding dress!

Offline rpavich

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Re: Shooting white objects?
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2012, 05:23:26 PM »
One word...(well...two words actually)...

LIGHT METER!

I know I know...you don't need them with the new fangled cameras but I'm telling you....you don't know what you are missing if you don't use one. Your camera's light meter gets fooled CONSTANTLY and you are forced to "compensate" and "chimp" to make up for it.

With an incident light meter...those days are over. You measure the light that's FALLING not the light that's reflected....so no "fixing" or "adjusting" to make up for your camera.

Watch this whole video and you will know how to expose perfectly in all situations...

http://www.sekonic.com/Classroom/Webinars/live-control-light-part-1-portraiture-using-available-light.aspx

Offline AndyWear

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Re: Shooting white objects?
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2012, 12:00:02 AM »
Thanks for the video. I just watched the whole thing and still a bit confused. lol

Does the camera itself have a metering mode?  I know we have these things called spot metering and center weighted metering etc, is that the same thing?  I've never used it before so I'll try playing with it.


Also about the white balancing.  When you're white balancing, you're suppose to take a white image, and get the right exposure for that white image, and then set it as your your white balance?

And if thats the case, do you do the same with black items too?

Offline Snapper

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Re: Shooting white objects?
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2012, 02:03:40 AM »
The following page may help you. The correct exposure will clearly depend upon the lighting conditions but there is a chart that may help you to be prepared...

http://www.patb-photography.co.uk/2932/the-ultimate-exposure-for-wedding-photography/

HTH  :)
Sometimes I find it really difficult to concentr......  ooooooh! a butterfly!!!!

Offline rpavich

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Re: Shooting white objects?
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2012, 02:09:49 AM »
Thanks for the video. I just watched the whole thing and still a bit confused. lol

That's not good! :)


Quote

Does the camera itself have a metering mode?  I know we have these things called spot metering and center weighted metering etc, is that the same thing?  I've never used it before so I'll try playing with it.

Yes..the camera does. 3 of them. All designed to try and get the best exposure in a given situation. spot metering is where the camera only meters in whatever is in the dead center circle with no regard to any tones outside of it. Center weighted is the same thing but it meters using the center and things outside but gives more "weight" to things at the center; it assumes that that's your priority. Evaluative is sort of a large compromise; it checks the whole scene and tries to even everything out to 18% grey.


Quote

Also about the white balancing.  When you're white balancing, you're suppose to take a white image, and get the right exposure for that white image, and then set it as your your white balance?

White balance and exposure are two different things but yes...that is one way to white balance. You take a picture of a white or grey card at your location and tell the camera that "this is white" and so it will set the white balance so that that card is actually white and not bluish, or yellowish as sometimes can be the case if white balance isn't exactly correct. It has nothing to do with exposure metering.

Quote

And if thats the case, do you do the same with black items too?


No...you just do it once with a white or grey card (you can even use your hand in a pinch) at the scene and then the camera "knows" what the color temperature is supposed to be.


Offline rpavich

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Re: Shooting white objects?
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2012, 02:12:54 AM »
That's a good link offered by Snapper...it takes the opposite approach. It assumes that you are using the "in camera" metering and that article is all about "compensating" for how much the camera is getting fooled in certain situations and how to "mentally adjust" what you see on the camera's meter so you actually get what you want in an image.

It's the opposite of the approach in the video that I posted. It's your choice which route to go.

Offline Keven

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Re: Shooting white objects?
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2012, 01:36:37 PM »
Rpavich great link. I happen to have the meter they were using so it was extremely useful for me.
Keven

Offline 1074

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Re: Shooting white objects?
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2012, 05:53:39 PM »
Short answer: Shoot RAW, expose for the dress & let everything else fall where it may, and expose to the right (ETTR, great post on it here: http://www.t2iforum.com/photo-specific-general-discussion/still-reluctant-to-shoot-raw-or-expose-to-the-right-ettr/ )
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Offline rpavich

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Re: Shooting white objects?
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2012, 07:20:03 PM »
1074...
Take a look at that video I posted...it's very interesting in light of your comment to expose for the dress and let everything else fall where it will.

They shoot a model with a white shirt against a white background at different zoom levels and taking differing amounts of the white background into the frame....

They shoot her with a black shirt white background, a white shirt black background and a black shirt black background...

It's a real eye opener to see just how far off the camera is each time depending on white range of tones is filling the frame at any given moment....anywhere from 2.8 all the way up to 7.1 based on the zoom level!

Very eye opening.

Offline 1074

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Re: Shooting white objects?
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2012, 01:41:18 PM »
I've watched about half of the video so far, and the reason the hand-held meter is "so much better" (at least the way this guy is using it), is because he's only comparing it to the evaluative metering on a 5D (not mkII, at least according to the info made available during the video). Of course the hand-held meter is better in these situations!

This would have been a much more valuable comparison had he been putting his light meter up against the spot meter of a more advanced, modern camera system. Of course, this video is direct from Sekonic, so they want to make the camera metering look as bad as they can so we'll all run out and buy meters.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with a hand-held meter, and yes they usually are better, but this video is not a great example of why... It's actually pretty disingenuous.

And it's a terrible video, from a technical standpoint. That shaky camera work combined with the reversed fields is enough to give me motion sickness.  :o


/crabby guy who wants things done right   ;D
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Offline 1074

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Re: Shooting white objects?
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2012, 01:45:28 PM »
Thanks for the video. I just watched the whole thing and still a bit confused. lol

Does the camera itself have a metering mode?  I know we have these things called spot metering and center weighted metering etc, is that the same thing?  I've never used it before so I'll try playing with it.

Yup, same thing. The different settings allow the camera to meter different sized zones, is all.

Also about the white balancing.  When you're white balancing, you're suppose to take a white image, and get the right exposure for that white image, and then set it as your your white balance?

And if thats the case, do you do the same with black items too?

White balance isn't so much about proper exposure, it's about telling the camera what to render as "white."  You do want to get a good exposure of your white item, though, since that will help the camera do its job better.

Oh, and the T2i doesn't have a black balance function... Just the white balance.
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Offline rpavich

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Re: Shooting white objects?
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2012, 01:49:07 PM »
I've watched about half of the video so far, and the reason the hand-held meter is "so much better" (at least the way this guy is using it), is because he's only comparing it to the evaluative metering on a 5D (not mkII, at least according to the info made available during the video). Of course the hand-held meter is better in these situations!

This would have been a much more valuable comparison had he been putting his light meter up against the spot meter of a more advanced, modern camera system. Of course, this video is direct from Sekonic, so they want to make the camera metering look as bad as they can so we'll all run out and buy meters.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with a hand-held meter, and yes they usually are better, but this video is not a great example of why... It's actually pretty disingenuous.

And it's a terrible video, from a technical standpoint. That shaky camera work combined with the reversed fields is enough to give me motion sickness.  :o


/crabby guy who wants things done right   ;D


Well..there are plenty of other videos showing the reason that incident meters are much better at ensuring a good exposure in many many situations...take your pick.

His "root point" would be that a reflective meter is just not up to snuff as an incident meter is...no matter what camera it's in....I have another video where a MKII IS use and the result is the same...it's only good on "average" scenes where there's "average distribution of tones"

And even then it's not "spot on..... :)


I've been more and more convinced of it's usefulness as I've used it in a variety of situations over the last week or two.

I've used it at the gym where my step-son wrestles and it was spot on when my camera meter was not.

Also, I took it to work to show a guy and here was the test:

We pointed the camera at a guy and centered the meter...then we moved the camera a bit and changed the meter by a full stop....not even 5 feet from the first spot....how who are we supposed to know which exposure is correct and how much the camera was getting fooled at any given moment except to do a wild guess?

Then we pulled out the incidence meter and hit the button...instant exposure settings as long as the lighting in the building didn't change...super easy...super confidence.


In my mind...I'd never go back to chimping and hoping.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2012, 01:57:35 PM by rpavich »

Offline 1074

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Re: Shooting white objects?
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2012, 03:19:40 PM »
Let's take a quick look at my post...

Nowhere did I say not to use a meter.

Nowhere did I say you were wrong for telling someone to use a meter.

Nowhere did I say that in-camera meters were better.

So maybe don't take it personally so much?  ;)

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Offline rpavich

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Re: Shooting white objects?
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2012, 04:02:16 PM »
1074...
I didn't take it personally...but i did think that you were implying that the metering thing was "over-hyped"....

sorry for that...I overreacted....my apologies.  :-[
« Last Edit: February 19, 2012, 04:04:36 PM by rpavich »

Offline 1074

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Re: Shooting white objects?
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2012, 04:26:13 PM »
We're cool. :)

I didn't mean that he was over-hyping metering, just that he wasn't being fair in the comparison.

Honestly, if they weren't selling meters the video could have stopped after they explained the difference between reflective & incident light meters, and why incident is better.

But that would have been a pretty short video!
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