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May 22, 2012, 03:20:10 AM


Author Topic: How to reduce noise in video?  (Read 1001 times)

Offline HDR Fan

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How to reduce noise in video?
« on: November 17, 2011, 04:25:27 PM »
I just got my T2i a month ago mainly for still photos but decided to play with the video hearing all these good things about it. Well I have teh kit lens and a 50mm 1.8. I tried to shoot some video in my house with normal indoor lighting which is moderate lighting. I can take a good still photo at ISO 100 at F/2.0 and 1/8 shutter with littel to no visiable noise. With the camera set in manual video moder and ISO at 100 F/1.8 1.30 shutter unless I point it at or near a light source I see tons of noise in the shadows and low light areas. Forget about going outside at night with the street and porch lights which are actually pretty bright where I live.

So what am I missing here? Do I have to install Magic lantern to reduce shutter speed more or what? I am shooting in 1920x1080 30fps mode.  I saw another video of a T2i user at night at an outdoor mall area near me with christmas light around and in a parking structure with those awful lights they have in there and all parts of his video looked clean and he was using a lens with a F2.8 max

Offline AndyCivil

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Re: How to reduce noise in video?
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2011, 04:52:37 PM »
First of all, the ISO on a modern digital camera is not like the ISO of old. I use ISO 400 by default, you're only going to see an improvement to ISO 200 or ISO 100 on exceptional surfaces or plain blue sky.

Sorry for stating the obvious, but if you're taking 30fps, your shutter speed has to be 1/30 or faster.

If the other user had a lens with an aperture going to F/2.8 then that's one of the "L" series pro quality lenses, although I wouldn't have thought that would make so much difference to noise, since it doesn't originate in the lens.

I did my own 'low light' tests, mainly to compare with my quality "point and shoot" - a Sony HX5. I posted the results on youtube; can you watch (skip to the second half if you like, where the T2i shots are) and tell me how it compares to what you're getting?

Low light video tests, Sony HX5 & Canon T2i

 

Offline HDR Fan

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Re: How to reduce noise in video?
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2011, 04:58:39 PM »
Ya those videos look much better than what I am getting with much lower ISO and then tried 800 ISO and just got more noise and more exposure. Not sure if there is something wrong with my camera. Yours had some noise but not as bad as what I am getting.

Offline Bif

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Re: How to reduce noise in video?
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2011, 07:55:29 PM »
First off are you sure you are in manual video mode?

Go to video mode and press the menu button, one of the first two menus will have your two choices:  Exposure AUTO or MANUAL.  Select MANUAL.

Then select resolution and frame rate.

Back in video mode, set shutter to 1/60th (1/50th if in PAL region).

Set aperture for desired "Depth Of Field" (Zone Of Acceptable Sharpness) effect.  Wide aperture for shallow zone, small for deep zone, or medium aperture for something in between.  But night scenes may dictate wide for enough exposure.

ISO should still be at AUTO for the moment, press the shutter button lightly to cause settings to all display on the bottom of the LCD (you need to have the display set for this), take note of the ISO the camera will select and "dial this value in" manually.  Exposure is now "locked" until you change it, the camera will not be changing it on you as you pan around. 

You can, at this point, adjust ISO up or down for specific exposure effect desired.

NOISE:  Check your monitor settings (from the controls on the monitor).  Especially sharpening, even the very slightest degree of oversharpening on the monitor will create the effect of noise where there may be NONE.  I was "plagued" with bad noise on one workstation to the point almost every video showed noise.  Until I thought to check monitor configuration and found sharpening, contrast, and brightness all way too high.  Sharpening and contrast were almost to MAX and brightness was up to 75%.

Pulling everything down to midpoint and then "tweaking" to taste solved the problem.

On my 7D, night tests I ran at f4 showed ISO 1600 to be totally clean, 3200 maybe a bit of noise but still looked very good, 6400 some noise showing but quite usable, 12,800 fair amount of noise except where I was able to get proper exposure in the scene (sidewalk scenes where store windows "bathed" most of the area with enough light to get good exposure on most surfaces).  I would use 12,800 if necessary to get the scene and not obsess about it.

Offline HDR Fan

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Re: How to reduce noise in video?
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2011, 10:46:21 PM »
Yes I am sure I am in manual mode. I just installed magic lantern in hopes that I can improve it since i thought maybe I could adjust the shutter past 1/30. After setting ISO to auto and playing with white balance I still get noise inside my place and outside with the porch light on and right beyond my walkway there is a fairly bright path lamp then the other porch lights are on in the complex I live in. It is not flooded with light but you can see very well out there. The path lamps are 100w LED which are like 150w CFL bulbs and the cases are clear glass. I tried reducing my sharpen in my monitors to 20% with no difference seen at all along with brightness to 50%. I think I may have to RMA my camera at this point. My still photos are not up to par in image quality either compared what others are getting with the same camera and same lenses. Night long exposure shots are poor. I got some decent ones when I first had the camera over a month ago. Pics looked clean even at exp of over 2min. Now I can get a single pic that is usable at night with long exp. I just compared the T2i to a video taken with my Droid X in the same room same light and they look pretty much exact.

Offline AndyCivil

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Re: How to reduce noise in video?
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2011, 11:06:50 PM »
I don't think Bif meant to set the shutter to 1/60th, he must have been thinking that you were shooting at 60fps. Obviously you want to have the sensor capturing all the time, which means matching your shutter speed to your frame rate. Again obviously, you can't ask for a slower shutter speed than the time for a frame, because capturing for the next frame would have to start before the last one finished...  ::)

Would you like to set up an experiment where we compare results? It would mean choosing a set of manual settings, then finding a plain wall that exposed to the centre of the scale (that should ensure that we're both working with the same amount of light), and taking a picture of it, and posting it, along with a 1:1 detail to see the noise. If you'd like to do that, suggest manual photo settings that manifest the problem you think you have.

Lenses I have are the two kit lenses 18-55 / 55-250 and the 50mm 1.8 prime.

Have you got your "long-exposure noise reduction" set to off, auto or on? (Custom II-4). What about your "high iso speed noise reduction" (Custom II-5)?

Offline danj

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Re: How to reduce noise in video?
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2012, 04:43:23 PM »
Actually Bif is correct, 1/60th is a 180 degree shutter when shooting at 30fps.  That would be the "standard" setting to use.  You can effect the amount of motion blur you'll get by changing the shutter speed, but if you are going for a film look you should only be using 1/60th and adjusting aperture to control DoF and then using ND to control light levels.

On the noise issue, I am having the exact same problems that HDR Fan is having.  Very noisy footage.  It's not my monitor settings as the noise is exaggerated when I do any color correction.  It's driving me nuts.  Had my T2i for a year and a half and it's basically useless to me.  I'm constantly having to borrow a 7D from a friend, and he's getting kinda tired of it (I don't blame him).

Have you had any luck with this issue HDR?  Did you go thru with the RMA?  It's too late for me to do that, I'm thinking of taking it a shop to see if they can repair it.


Offline tekwiz

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Re: How to reduce noise in video?
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2012, 05:45:44 PM »
Hello Danj,

What lens are you using. I have been having noise issues since day one but mine usually happen indoors with the kit lens which I hear is to be expected? I don't think I've shot one video yet that compares with many of the clean t2i shots I've seen online.
One time, this guy handed me a picture of him, he said,"Here's a picture of me when I was younger." Every picture is of you when you were younger. "Here's a picture of me when I'm older." How'd you pull that off? Lemme see that camera... what's it look like? -Mitch Hedberg

Offline danj

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Re: How to reduce noise in video?
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2012, 05:56:49 PM »
I've had the same issue with many lenses.  I've noticed no difference with different lenses.  I've used the 28mm 1.8 most recently and get bad noise at ISO 160 (Magic Lantern) and at ISO 100 without ML.  The 16-35 L gives the same issue as does the Sigma 14mm.  I rent good quality glass rather than buy cheap and all lenses give me the same results.  Most disagreeable.

I've done a lot of test shooting with various lenses, light levels, settings and firmware.  All noisy. At this point I'm fairly certain there is a problem with my camera body, but I wanted to hit up one more forum to see if anyone else has had the bad luck to have this problem followed by the good luck of fixing it.

Offline tekwiz

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Re: How to reduce noise in video?
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2012, 05:59:33 PM »
Do you have any online examples you've shot? I'm curious if mine is in the same boat :(
One time, this guy handed me a picture of him, he said,"Here's a picture of me when I was younger." Every picture is of you when you were younger. "Here's a picture of me when I'm older." How'd you pull that off? Lemme see that camera... what's it look like? -Mitch Hedberg

Offline 1074

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Re: How to reduce noise in video?
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2012, 07:13:20 PM »
Welcome to the forum, danj & tekwiz! You should (i mean both of you should) hit up the new members introduction forum, it's a great place to get started here.  ;)
I'm awesome on the Internet!
www.bryancantwellphotography.com

Offline AndyCivil

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Re: How to reduce noise in video?
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2012, 07:04:07 PM »
Actually Bif is correct, 1/60th is a 180 degree shutter when shooting at 30fps.  That would be the "standard" setting to use.  You can effect the amount of motion blur you'll get by changing the shutter speed, but if you are going for a film look you should only be using 1/60th and adjusting aperture to control DoF and then using ND to control light levels.
In the final analysis, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so whether Bif is "correct" is a matter of opinion.  I should explain that I did not grow up in the United States, so this concept of "film look" is not something I aspire to - rather, I want my videos to look pleasant and realistic. I understand that many people, and possibly work contracts too, require that videos be 'broken' in exactly the same way as old films were, to create the right effect in the (American) viewing audience. In the same way, incidentally, as my favourite "Mario Kart Wii" fakes gobs of lens flare in its rendering engine. However, the original poster did not do anything to imply that he wanted his video broken in this way, so I still maintain that my advice to "fill real time with sensor capture" (i.e. to choose the longest available shutter time) is more "correct" [sic] than Bif's advice.

P.S. it may be me. I've recently done a bit of night driving, and I hate pulse-modulated (i.e. flashing) LED rear (tail) lights because of the dotted trails they leave across my retina when I look around. My family can't even tell. (sigh)

Offline tekwiz

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Re: How to reduce noise in video?
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2012, 03:23:08 PM »
I thought the reason for the 180 rule was because that IS what supposedly looks most natural and normal to the eye. I've read that using higher shutter makes things look choppy? I've done no testing though as I'm still just working on trying to get clean, non noisy video for the most part. Isn't the PAL standard outside the US 25p or is it 60p now? So confusing...  :-\
One time, this guy handed me a picture of him, he said,"Here's a picture of me when I was younger." Every picture is of you when you were younger. "Here's a picture of me when I'm older." How'd you pull that off? Lemme see that camera... what's it look like? -Mitch Hedberg

Offline Bif

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Re: How to reduce noise in video?
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2012, 12:00:26 PM »
The 180 degree "rule" is what resulted from a mechanical rotating shutter with half (or 180 degrees) "cut out".  The cut out portion made the exposure, the other half "masked" the film gate as the next frame was pulled into place. 

24 frames per second was the best compromise between economy of film consumption and the slowest frame rate at which persistence of vision could be counted on to work for most people.  The resulting shutter speed at 24fps from the 180 degree rotating shutter was 1/48th second.

That no longer really applies much to what we do.  We have electronic scanning of the sensor for shutter.  Setting the shutter speed to 1/50th second almost exactly duplicates the motion blur at 1/48th we got used to seeing in movie theatres but in regions where the power line frequency is 60Hz that 1/50th can result in flickering and/or "banding" if artificial lighting is in the scene.  So in the US and other regions that have a power line frequency of 60Hz, 1/60th of a second is a better choice (still enough motion blur to come close to that of 1/48th second)  1/50th is the best choice in regions where the power line freq is 50Hz.

So that's where I recommended 1/60th.  In extreme low light 1/30th can be used, there may be more motion blur in each frame but it can still be usable.  But that's as slow as the shutter will go in video mode (NTSC).

Back to the OP's problem.  Noise.   In a darker scene noise will result in any underexposed area of the scene.  There is likely nothing wrong with the camera.  Avoiding noise means trying to insure that what the camera sees can be given proper exposure.  When I shoot a night sidewalk scene I choose an area where the store window lighting pretty much "bathes" the area in light and I rarely see objectionable noise (I shoot at 1/60th and f2.8 to f1.8  ). 

HDR states trying to shoot low light at night with ISO 100, that's pretty much going to insure plenty of underexposure in most of the scene and literally "tons" of noise.  Typically on night street/sidewalk locations I start at 1600 and jump right to 3200 if I'm not getting good exposure.  At 6400 I'm willing to put up with some noise if I have to in order to "get the shot".

Noise comes from underexposure, yes higher ISO's will tend to result in more noise but it really comes from not getting enough exposure in the darker parts of the scene.

If the scene is mostly light sources themselves then "crushing" the blacks a bit in post processing can help a lot.

The "kit" lens is not the best to attempt low light work with unless the scene is pretty well lit.  I've seen some good stuff shot with it at the wide end (f3.5 can be close enough to f2.8 to work if you have enough street and storefront lighting) but the best night work is done with fast prime lenses.  I use the EF 24 mm f2.8, EF 28mm f1.8 (just about my favorite), and the EF 50mm f1.8 (old style with focusing ring on the barrel) for much of the video I shoot.

« Last Edit: January 20, 2012, 12:09:25 PM by Bif »

Offline Bif

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Re: How to reduce noise in video?
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2012, 12:13:45 PM »
I don't think Bif meant to set the shutter to 1/60th, he must have been thinking that you were shooting at 60fps. 

I meant 1/60th.  And I assumed the frame rate to be 30fps.  These are my basic (starting point) settings, even in low light.